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tannuin1
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Joined: 01/08/2009
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What does DDU Airport means. What about Insurance.
How should the goods be insured at exporter's end.
Who will be the beneficiary in the insurance claim if damge to goods.

desprado7
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ccnpThe UCP600 article 3

ccnpThe UCP600 article 3 indicates a document may be signed by ... or any other mechanical or electronic method of authenticationccspThe UCP600 article 3 indicates a document may be signed by ... or any other mechanical or electronic method of authenticationccvpThe UCP600 article 3 indicates a document may be signed by ... or any other mechanical or electronic method of authenticationcisa

pastech
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Clearly the seller is at

Clearly the seller is at risk for loss prior to the ‘place’ in the destination country where the cargo is handed over so they would have the insurable interest prior to that point and it would aca certification be prudent – but not compulsory – for the seller to carry cargo insurance. In practice, it is often the buyer – on receipt of the goods – who will first detect cargo loss or damage. In DDU contracts, the commonest method of payment is apc certification an open account i.e. in a contract prefixed “D”, the seller delivers cargo (as opposed to a C prefixed contract which is the sale of documents – hence its close association to the credit). Accordingly, the buyer holds payment over until delivery is achieved. Thus, in the case of cargo ccda loss or damage, it is commonest (but not obligatory) for the buyer to short-pay the seller to compensate for any loss. The buyer in such cases having no risk whether the cargo is insured or not and the seller claiming for the loss. (All of this does not mean that we could not have a credit with a DDU sale, but it wouldn't be appropriate: I can unscrew ccna security the wires from a plug with a fish-knife that does not make the screwdriver less appropriate).

phoenix
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Joined: 07/23/2010
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loan

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phill doran
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Joined: 02/10/2009
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DDU

Hello

DDU “airport” is difficult in practice as DDU (unless modified in the sales agreement) would end ‘on the delivering device' at the named place i.e. on the aircraft, on the tarmac.

It is a difficult point of handover as it is unlikely that the buyer could access the cargo at that point. The fact that the aircraft has landed is no proof that the cargo is on the aircraft and so on. So, with DDU, the recommended point of handover is always a ‘place’ where the buyer and/or their representative can sight the cargo – being a point beyond any restricted area like an airport or a railhead (in seafreight, the terms DES and DEQ are there so as to avoid this confusion in respect of a seaport)

Unless mandated by law – or agreed in the sales contract – cargo insurance is not obligatory so there need not be insurance in place in a DDU contract.

Clearly the seller is at risk for loss prior to the ‘place’ in the destination country where the cargo is handed over so they would have the insurable interest prior to that point and it would be prudent – but not compulsory – for the seller to carry cargo insurance.

In practice, it is often the buyer – on receipt of the goods – who will first detect cargo loss or damage. In DDU contracts, the commonest method of payment is an open account i.e. in a contract prefixed “D”, the seller delivers cargo (as opposed to a C prefixed contract which is the sale of documents – hence its close association to the credit). Accordingly, the buyer holds payment over until delivery is achieved. Thus, in the case of cargo loss or damage, it is commonest (but not obligatory) for the buyer to short-pay the seller to compensate for any loss. The buyer in such cases having no risk whether the cargo is insured or not and the seller claiming for the loss. (All of this does not mean that we could not have a credit with a  DDU sale, but it wouldn't be appropriate: I can unscrew the wires from a plug with a fish-knife that does not make the screwdriver less appropriate).

Still, I am sure others can add to this...

cheers

phill doran

"...in armour bright, the merchant men..." 

bob_exports
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Joined: 10/11/2009
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DDU Airport

Hi Phil,

I think you are confused with the word "airport". Why cannot this be taken off the arriving aircraft and held in the Customs facility at the airport waiting for the buyer to clear the goods then take them away? Incoterms do not infer that the buyer can "sight" the goods prior to customs clearance to determine their condition.

I have found that when L/Cs are issued for DDU transactions, and I have seen a few for multi-million dollar transactions, the issuing bank calls for an insurance cert. This then implies that if something untoward happens to the goods it will be the buyer not the seller who will claim on the seller's insurance, making it in effect a CIP transaction instead.

Of course DDU and L/Cs are not compatible because under DDU the seller's obligation does not end until delivery at the DDU point, yet the L/C invariably calls for presentation of a B/L within typically 21 days after shipment, again converting it effectively to CIP.

Of course DDU will disappear soon with the new Incoterms (now being called 2010).

Regards,

Bob

phill doran
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Joined: 02/10/2009
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DDU Airport

Hello Bob

Well, a central theme to Incoterms is the need for precision is it not? The ‘named place’ is the pivotal point of the DDU contract. To say “DDU Heathrow” alone is rather ambiguous – it is a very big area. But, unless modified, it would be taken to mean (A4) “on any arriving means of transport, not unloaded”. I am open to correction but I would think the ‘arriving means of transport’ most commonly associated with airports are aircraft.

Aside from the physical barriers this imposes, there are fees – a whole array of them – and liabilities which arise in the movement of goods from the aircraft body into the airport’s designated holding area. In a ‘DDU Heathrow’ sale, are these fees for the seller or the buyer?

The seller will say he meant DDU Heathrow, in the holding area, the buyer will claim he meant DDU Heathrow on the aircraft – which is the exactly the position we are trying to avoid by using Incoterms.

There is no reason why DDU Heathrow could not be taken as being delivered off “ the arriving aircraft and held in the Customs facility at the airport waiting for the buyer to clear the goods then take them away”, provided the sales contact evidences this agreement between the parties by way of modification. But, unmodified it’ll be the airport, on the arriving means of transport – and fertile grounds for dispute.

Yes, I heard about “2010” – rather depressing that they can’t even agree on the name. Still, let us see what unravels

cheers

phill doran

"...in armour bright, the merchant men..." 

Abrar
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Joined: 03/12/2009
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DDU

Hi Phill

I agree with your sentiments regarding the need for precision, to avoid any false expectations as to the respective duties of the buyer/seller, applicant/beneficiary.

However, I should think that any disputes that may arise due to imprecision, would be required to be resolved at contract level, and is likely to unaffect the banks' obligations to pay against documents appearing "on its face" to agree with the LC terms, i.e to pay against documents, even with an imprecise incoterm.

I believe the ICC has now fixed the name of the publication, although at one time, "INCOTERMS 3000" was also being considered, to counter the expectation that the publication would be revised every 10 years.

Bob mentioned that DDU has now been replaced. Just to expand, the term DAP (Delivered at point) now replaces the incoterms such as DDU, DES DAF.

DAP indicates that the seller delivers when the goods are placed at the disposal of the buyer on the arriving means of transport ready for unloading by the buyer at the named place of destination. Of course, the parties should specify clearly the point within the agreed place of destination.  

phill doran
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Quite, but...

Hello Arbar

The question was "What does DDU Airport mean"And that was the question I was attempting to answer and not really its relevance or otherwise to the credit.

Unmodified in the sales contract, it will mean "on the delivering means of transport at the named place" We can't assume a point beyond this.

How much 'assumption' do we allow in the credit? Well, why should we have greater latitude in the sales contract?I see no further clarity in "DAP Heathrow" either: "when the goods are placed at the disposal of the buyer on the arriving means of transport ready for unloading by the buyer at the named place of destination" - is this not still on the aircarft - on what basis, within incoterms, do we assume it is in a warehouse? 

My whole point is that if it is unmodified in the contract, then the contract ends at the first incident which meets the specification i.e. on the aircraft on the tarmac, which is clearly a dangerous contract to execute and measure...

cheers phill doran

"...in armour bright, the merchant men..." 

bob_exports
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Joined: 10/11/2009
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DDU Airport

Hi Phil,

Just as UCP600 and ISBP681 cannot possibly hope to cover every aspect of the operation of L/Cs, which is I suppose why this forum exists, Incoterms too cannot possibly hope to cover every possibility in the most minute of details. In the case at point, it is logic and practice that the goods are removed from the aircraft and placed into a Customs-controlled area and the cost of that is included in the airfreight paid by the seller. Indeed it is really only at this point that risk can pass from seller to buyer, not at the point of being delivered from the aircraft's cargo hatch onto a trolley on the tarmac.
Incoterms 2010 will contain an explanation of the concept of "delivery" to this effect.

Were this not to be the case you could imagine the chaos as multiple aircraft waited on the tarmac for several days to unload until every piece of cargo was Customs cleared. Similarly, passengers would need to be cleared whilst on the aircraft.

I suggest that queries and discussions on Incoterms in this forum should be limited to their relevance to L/Cs. Questions on how Incoterms work, as this thread started out, are often best answered by simply reading the book.

So I think that nothing is to be gained by taking obscure points to
this length to demonstrate inadequacies or perceived inadequacies of
Incoterms when frankly you haven't come up with a better set of guidelines.

If you are not happy with the wording of Incoterms, as you have often indicated is the case, and want to have an input into them then I suggest that you should do so through your country's ICC National Committee, which is the route I have taken. This has allowed me to review each draft of the new terms (latest is the third) and have an input into the wording or concepts, and yes you can contribute as some of mine have been taken up by the ICC.

Regards,

Bob